Poles face criminal charges for supporting Donbas and Russia

9 июня 2022
Marcin Mikołajek faces up to 5 years in prison in Poland. 

- I came to Belarus with a request to obtain political asylum.

Belarus as a target of official Warsaw.

- The Polish government sets goals - to achieve a regime change in Belarus.

Ukrainian refugees and benefits.

- Ukraine is more important than Poland’s historical memory and its people.

Arab refugees and gas water cannons.

- Poles have a negative attitude towards people of the Muslim faith. 

Right to an alternative opinion.

- You're going to have big problems.

A new norm of life. Desecration of memorials.

- He wants to demolish 60 Soviet monuments.

Dreams of a new Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

- They dream that Lvov would return to Poland.

Marcin Mikołajek will tell you everything. Learn about it right now.

- You are a Polish activist, blogger, but now in Belarus. What chance brings you to us?

- Yes, I came to Belarus with a request to obtain political asylum in the Republic of Belarus, because in Poland, a criminal case has now been initiated against me under the article "Public calls for war" and for supporting a special military operation. They call it a war against the Republic of Ukraine.

- How did it happen? What caused the accusations?

- I have posted several publications that, in their opinion, violate the law of the Republic of Poland now. That is, they refer to the period of time from February 24 to March 4. For example, a photo saying simply that I support Putin, Donbass and Russia.

At what point did you realize it was time to leave your country? What was that? What was the trigger?

- Summons for questioning. I was just afraid that in Poland maybe they would try to arrange a show trial, let's say.

- Against you?

- Yes, against me, so that others were afraid to express their opinions there. They came to search me. Then I asked both the police and the prosecutor for two months to give me some information about my case. Nobody knew anything, nobody wanted to say anything. Only last week, I finally got some information on what I am accused of, what evidence they have. No one had said anything before.

- And are there precedents, when activists like you were punished by the Polish authorities?

- I know for sure that there was a case where some Pole spread a Russian flag and a letter Z on the glass in his apartment. The police and the prosecutor arrived within an hour. It is impossible to express support for Russia now, simply because.. well, because you're going to have big problems. 

- Example of Mateusz Piskorski?

- Yes, Mateusz Piskorski. He was also accused in our country of allegedly spying for Russia, then China, then the man sat in prison for about 3 years. I remember well it was a temporary arrest. And then they just let him go on bail. The man now works in the media. Dou you remember or not, he tried to register his political party with us. Well, he was forbidden, because he is supposedly pro-Russian.  And in general, it is very dangerous to speak out against Ukraine now.  Because you will immediately be accused of being an agent of Putin, an agent of Russia.

- And by the way, how did you get out of Poland? The usual way?

- Yes, by bus. Before crossing the border at Polish control, I was honestly afraid, because a criminal case was initiated against me. Yet, they did not have me sign a written undertaking not to leave. The case is still underway, so I was afraid that there would be some problems and uncomfortable questions. Well, then when I passed the Polish control without difficulties, everything was all right, that is, I knew that there would be no problems on the part of the Belarusians.

- What can you say about the so-called Belarusian clubbish set?  About the Belarusians, who after the events of 2020 left for Poland and set up some headquarters there, willing to influence the internal politics of Belarus. What do Poles say about them?

- You remember, probably even Prime Minister Morawiecki presented a house to Tikhanovskaya, where she was called president. Now they say she is the leader of the opposition. They were supported very strongly then, now the topic seems to have switched to Ukraine.

- Did it happen all at once?

- Yes, all at once.

- And the Poles are not embarrassed, look, I always ask myself this question, if we could create a TV channel that would broadcast in Polish, including to the Polish audience, on which we would criticize the Polish government, supported the Polish opposition and advocated the regime change. I mean, what's going on now? Here is the Polish TV channel BELSAT - it's millions of dollars. Do you mean, there are no any other problems in Poland? Why spend tens of millions of dollars annually to sponsor a channel that broadcasts in another country?

- If you created, for example, a Belarusian channel that would show these problems in Poland, you would either simply be closed or have very big problems for operation.

- What are the goals of the Polish government, sponsoring the Belarusian opposition?

- The Polish government sets goals to achieve a regime change in Belarus. And why do they support the opposition? Because, you know, Poland actually needed new slaves to work, because Poles won't go to work for pennies, let's put it that way. I have guys from Belarus at my job, who work for 16 hours for a penny, ride a shuttle van seven days a week. That's their job. 

- What kind of job?

- A driver.

-The Poles need people who will work for them and raise their economy. Poles, you know, a huge number of Poles become seasonal migrants.

- In more prosperous countries like Germany...

 - Yes, Germany, Holland. Only Ukrainians remain.

- Ordinary Poles, do they know now about the situation related to the training of militants of Belarusian origin, who subsequently go to fight in Ukraine? Is this question being raised in Polish society?

- No, the Pole doesn't know anything about it.

- Doesn’t the media talk about it?

Are there many Ukrainians coming to Poland now, particularly to Warsaw? We read various reports about how their relations with Poles are developing. What did you see from your side?

 - There are a lot of them in Poland, when this whole situation began, they were placed above Poles at the state level. They received tremendous support. The Belarusians were also helped, but not as much as the Ukrainians are helped now. You see, I think that if we're helping refugees, then let's help them in the same way. But at the same time, I say, you can't make a refugee feel superior to Poles in the country.

-Is this what happens?

- Of course that's what happens.

 -What does this mean, for example?

- For example, in supporting the family. Our family gets 500 zlotys per child. Ukrainians who come to Poland get a thousand. It comes naturally. This is priority to the Ukrainian refugees. Poles sometimes wait years in line to see a doctor for some kind of apparatus or for some kind of examination. Ukrainians may come straight to registration.

- Is this done for free?

 - Yes, it's free.

We have free transportation for refugees, which has been suspended now, because they think it's a big blow to the country's budget.

 - How did you get on the peacemaker site?

- I happened to see that I was accused there of Ukrainian anti-propaganda, allegedly an attempt to legalize the annexation of Crimea

-And yet you are not a journalist, you do not represent any political force.

- I'm just a simple resident of the city and that is all, I express my opinion in a social network. I don't know how they learned that. Ukrainians are allocated the housing that was promised to Poles. Poles wait several years to get  an apartment. Now they provide Ukrainians with apartments, because, as they say, "they have to live somewhere". But at the same time, they claim that the daily allowances allocated to Ukrainians is a severe blow to the country's budget. And they gradually stopped doing it. Free gasoline for Ukraine, daily benefits to support refugees now also stopped. We'll see how it ends. Meanhile there is still a lot of hysteria about Ukraine, that they are suffering, that Russia is the aggressor.

- And are Poles not confused about the current modern views, symbols used by Ukrainians, including some neo-Nazi symbols, honoring Bandera?

In my town of Świdnica, it's the Lower Silesia province, where I come from, I have an anti-Russian billboard right in the center, which has the Banderite salute "Glory to Ukraine, Glory to the Heroes" and Poles and the town residents walk by and no one sees anything wrong with it. They like it. The main thing is that it is against Russia.

- Do local nationalists or anyone else have any clashes with migrants?

 - If we look at May 9 in Warsaw, the Poles were outraged that refugees were standing there with placards, like "Russian occupants" or so. They were outraged. They can't do anything now, Ukraine is now more important than historical memory.

- Three is a question burning in my mind. I was at the Belarusian-Polish border last year when a couple of thousand refugees from the Middle East wanted to get into Poland, but they weren't allowed in. They put barbed wire and troops in front of them, watered them with water cannons, there was gas. That surprises me. And yet they host millions of Ukrainians?

Of course, it was said at the time that Alexander Lukashenko was waging war against Poland. That he sends refugees there on purpose to hurt Poland.

 - Did the nationality of these refugees have anything to do with it?

Yes, it did. They were Muslims. Poles think it's a different culture, they're strangers. Poles have a negative attitude even now to people of the Muslim faith, even now to those, who have arrived, from countries that the same Poles, being part of NATO, simply destroyed. 

- In terms of economics, has the situation changed in any way since the start of the special operation that Russia is conducting?

In Poland, prices have gone up a lot for food, for gasoline, literally, the day before yesterday, maybe you saw that Poles were allowed to collect branches in the woods, because Vladimir Putin shut off the gas, and the winter will come anyway. 

 - Is it for heating?

-  Sure! They don't want to buy coal, they don't want Russian gas. You need something to keep you warm.

 - Is this somehow reflected in the mood of Polish society?

Yes, Poles cry that everything is expensive. In Olsztyn, I remember well, there was a case where the utility bill came and the prices went up by 500%. People turned to the city administration with the question of what to do. The city administration said that it can do nothing, because private firms and officials make no decisions there. The elderly people suffer and do not know what to do.

 - In 2020, when we had some pretty disturbing events involving protests, I've heard Polish politicians say that if there is a coup in Belarus, they should cede the Grodno and Brest regions to Poland. How strong are such sentiments in Poland?

The people dream that Lvov would return to Poland now, because they believe that it is primordially Polish territory, so they would only be happy if it returned to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.  The Poles consider themselves an empire, but in fact they are a small country, which now decides nothing. Poland is now following U.S. orders and that's it. They do not have their own views on international politics.

vgeny Gorin, correspondent: In your opinion, how likely is it that with the help of Poland, as is now happening in Ukraine, the situation in our region, including the military one, will escalate?

Marcin Mikołajek, Polish activist: Let's see how ready the Americans are to continue this war. The Americans are fighting with other people's hands, they have sponsored Ukraine since 2014, and they continue to sponsor it now. The Poles are now supplying old Soviet weapons in the hope that they will receive a new German one. This is their whole policy. They think that they will impose sanctions against Russia, with Poland very much involved and take away Russian property. Seven packages of sanctions have already been introduced. Poles take away Russian property in Warsaw. They think that this will help Ukraine. But, as we see in practice, they just hurt themselves. 

Evgeny Gorin, correspondent: What is the situation with Soviet monuments and monuments to Soviet soldiers in Poland?

Marcin Mikołajek, Polish activist: Now monuments to Soviet soldiers are being demolished, destroyed and desecrated. Just a month ago, our Chairman of the Institute of National Remembrance announced that he wanted to demolish 60 Soviet monuments. At the same time, there have already been examples where he demolished such monuments. They clapped him together and were happy that they were actually destroying history, because, I think, if it were not for the Soviet soldier, then Poland would simply not exist. 

Evgeny Gorin, correspondent: Have you encountered any issues of Russophobia in Poland? What are these examples? 

Marcin Mikołajek, Polish activist: Of course, I say it again that if you say you support Russia, I repeat, you will have big problems. You're not even going to be second or third class. You're going to have big problems. I'm telling you, I had a photo where I just put a ribbon in the colors of the Russian flag, and now I'm getting a criminal case. We recently held a survey in which people were asked how they feel about the Russian Federation, according to a survey, Poland was recognized as the most Russophobic country. The number reached 87% of people who have an extremely negative attitude towards Russia. At the same time, in Ukraine itself it is 80%. That is why the Poles are moving forward. 

Evgeny Gorin, correspondent: And before that, were there allegations that the Soviet period for Poland, when the Soviet Union liberated Poland from Hitler's Germany, was also a period of occupation. 

Marcin Mikołajek, Polish activist: Of course, the Poles still believe at the state level that it was an occupation, and the majority of Polish residents believe that it was an occupation. 

Evgeny Gorin, correspondent: Is this a kind of an official Polish story? Is that what the textbooks say? 

Marcin Mikołajek, Polish activist: Yes, yeah. It was an occupation. Our textbooks say that on September 17, 1939, it was a knife in the back on the part of the Soviet Union. First Hitler attacked, then the Soviet Union. 

Evgeny Gorin, correspondent: For example, I was always surprised, when there were protests in Belarus, the West had one reaction, but when exactly the same protests took place in the West, in Lithuania, France, Germany with protests dispersed quite harshly, tougher than in Belarus, I was confused by the characteristics that Western politicians and Western media gave to these, one might say, the same phenomena. Is this difference noticeable in Poland or is it considered the norm?

Marcin Mikołajek, Polish activist: You understand that if such things happen in Europe, this is different. Here you have people who fought against the regime, there they are destroying democracy — everything is fine. No protests can be held there. These are just double standards, some can and some cannot. 

Evgeny Gorin, correspondent: Europe, including Poland, often teaches us, as they say, the freedom of speech. Allegedly, we, in Belarus, do not have it here, but there it is true and real. 

Marcin Mikołajek, Polish activist: There is definitely no freedom of speech in Poland. Most likely, this is Belarus, where there is freedom of speech. If you want, for example, to watch Soloviev's program, you have to connect via a Russian VPN, because all Russian channels have been removed and blocked from our satellite TV. 

Evgeny Gorin, correspondent: What about the free market? Competition?

Marcin Mikołajek, Polish activist: There's nothing wrong with that. They just blocked it and that's it. 

Evgeny Gorin, correspondent:  A top-down approach?

Marcin Mikołajek, Polish activist: Sure! Now you can only watch the Russian channel on the Internet. Through a VPN. No other way. In Poland, it is now impossible to express the point of view that I am telling you now. Because, I say again, if I or another Pole say that you are crazy there and do not understand what you are doing, you will have big problems in Poland. You can't say that you are wrong by supporting Ukraine, think about it, because you are putting Poland under attack. It's not safe to say that in the country right now. 

Evgeny Gorin, correspondent: What are your plans for the future now?

Marcin Mikołajek, Polish activist: I would like to stay in Belarus, if it is possible, as I said at the beginning, to get political asylum. Find a job here and just work. Lead a normal life.